Hi Folks, I have a vague memory of reading that you could fit the 2.5 inlet manifold to the 2.0 dual vanos to improve engine breathing.....? Anyone know if this is true and if there is a thread anywhere?
Thanks
Thanks
changing inlet manifold on a 2.0?
- Thread starter NigeB
- Start date
Hi Nigel
I too have wounded about this. Below is my thinking to date.
There are threads about fitting the M54B30 manifold to the M52TUB28 to increase the breathing of the engine and give more top end HP, faster revving past 3,500 rpm with a slight drop on torque in the mid rev range. Adding an improved exhaust system and a DME tune to maximize the changes seems to be the ticket. People have done this and like it.
I'm in the process of collecting parts to remove an aged M52TUB25 engine from a 323i and fit a M54B25 engine using the M54's own inlet manifold. The sepc's say there is a 21 HP increase in performance with the M54 engine. It's not just the inlet manifold that is different between the engines to give the boost, the valves are bigger in the M54 engine too = better engine breathing. I'll know more when the job's done.
Now for the 2.0 L Z3 with the M52TUB20 engine.
- 11611439965 is the inlet manifold used on all M52TUB engines from 2.0 to 2.8 L. The M54B30 manifold swap example shows that it is slightly limiting for the 2.8 L engine.
- 11617525752 is the inlet manifold used on the M54 engines 2.0 to 2.5L.
- It has a 11:1 compression ratio, The highest of any M52 or M54 engines. So it is designed for high octane fuel, not regular 91.
My thinking on this is:
- I have not noticed any air restriction limitation on my 2.0 L Z3 with its standard manifold which has been designed for larger engines.
- My daily driving does not see me going above 3,500 rpm, so any top end HP improvement would not be used
- There is not enough mid rev range torque in the engine to sacrifice any for top end HP (which I would not use)
- I have got bigger bangs for my buck from replacing the twin VANOS seals and running the car on premium 98 fuel. The car has gone from sluggish to fun for around town and open road (100 km/h) driving.
So, do your VANOS seals and always run the car on the highest octane rated fuel you have available.
Hope this helps
Regards
Murray
I too have wounded about this. Below is my thinking to date.
There are threads about fitting the M54B30 manifold to the M52TUB28 to increase the breathing of the engine and give more top end HP, faster revving past 3,500 rpm with a slight drop on torque in the mid rev range. Adding an improved exhaust system and a DME tune to maximize the changes seems to be the ticket. People have done this and like it.
I'm in the process of collecting parts to remove an aged M52TUB25 engine from a 323i and fit a M54B25 engine using the M54's own inlet manifold. The sepc's say there is a 21 HP increase in performance with the M54 engine. It's not just the inlet manifold that is different between the engines to give the boost, the valves are bigger in the M54 engine too = better engine breathing. I'll know more when the job's done.
Now for the 2.0 L Z3 with the M52TUB20 engine.
- 11611439965 is the inlet manifold used on all M52TUB engines from 2.0 to 2.8 L. The M54B30 manifold swap example shows that it is slightly limiting for the 2.8 L engine.
- 11617525752 is the inlet manifold used on the M54 engines 2.0 to 2.5L.
- It has a 11:1 compression ratio, The highest of any M52 or M54 engines. So it is designed for high octane fuel, not regular 91.
My thinking on this is:
- I have not noticed any air restriction limitation on my 2.0 L Z3 with its standard manifold which has been designed for larger engines.
- My daily driving does not see me going above 3,500 rpm, so any top end HP improvement would not be used
- There is not enough mid rev range torque in the engine to sacrifice any for top end HP (which I would not use)
- I have got bigger bangs for my buck from replacing the twin VANOS seals and running the car on premium 98 fuel. The car has gone from sluggish to fun for around town and open road (100 km/h) driving.
So, do your VANOS seals and always run the car on the highest octane rated fuel you have available.
Hope this helps
Regards
Murray
Thanks Murray, very interesting indeed, thanks for the insight.
I am planning a long term upgrade if I can, have costed up a full stainless exhaust from head back with sports cats then a remap and am also looking at what I can do with regard to the inlet side. I had a vague memory of the inlet swap being talked about before. I will digest your info and try to decide what to do...... It's all good fun just planning it.
Just another thought, you mentioned the vanos seals. I seem to be quite sluggish until 2500 rpm when you can feel the vanos kick in, is this normal or would new seals help this?
N
I thought the M52TUB20 was single VANOS, I too have also looked into the manifold swap
New Seals Needed!!!
You may also have a nice cackle from the exhaust pipe at the moment when you put your foot down. This will disappear when you put the seals in. Its a sign of the exhaust VANOS not working.
These two charts are from my Mora 2.0 L Z3 before the VANOS seals were replaced. 97,000 miles on the clock. Haven't got around to doing a retest after the replacement.
- Inlet very jumpy but generally following the reference
- Exhaust jumps to reference or there about's but gets overhauled by the return spring in the exhaust VANOS cylinder e.g oil slipping right past the seal. Hence the cackle in the exhaust note.
If you are going to the effort of replacing the exhaust and a re-tune, then add the M54 inlet manifold. The added cost is not great.
Today I'm looking at the differences between injector fuel rails mounts on the M52TU and M54 manifolds. Working out if the M52TU rail will fit on the M54 manifold to limit the amount of fuel system modifications.
You may also have a nice cackle from the exhaust pipe at the moment when you put your foot down. This will disappear when you put the seals in. Its a sign of the exhaust VANOS not working.
These two charts are from my Mora 2.0 L Z3 before the VANOS seals were replaced. 97,000 miles on the clock. Haven't got around to doing a retest after the replacement.
- Inlet very jumpy but generally following the reference
- Exhaust jumps to reference or there about's but gets overhauled by the return spring in the exhaust VANOS cylinder e.g oil slipping right past the seal. Hence the cackle in the exhaust note.
If you are going to the effort of replacing the exhaust and a re-tune, then add the M54 inlet manifold. The added cost is not great.
Today I'm looking at the differences between injector fuel rails mounts on the M52TU and M54 manifolds. Working out if the M52TU rail will fit on the M54 manifold to limit the amount of fuel system modifications.
Attachments
That is fascinating Murray, thanks - Vanos seals it is then! I thought it all sounded ok but looks like I was wrong. I would be interested to hear how it goes with the manifold comparison - good luck!
have you seen this pretty thing!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122287558756?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
Oh now that is very nice indeedy! I want it now!
isn't it lovely!?Oh now that is very nice indeedy! I want it now!
There are vids on youtube mate, We have a German car specialist near us so I called them for a price, the response I got was not very good at all, basically spoke to me like I was an idiot, "why on Earth would you want them doing"Ok, who has the link to "how to overhaul your vanos" then..........
Thanks Sean, just been trawling utube - looks ok to me. I know what I am doing next weekend!
Let me know how you get on, apparently you need to get very good quality seals, is the M52TUB20 duel VANOS, I thought it was singleThanks Sean, just been trawling utube - looks ok to me. I know what I am doing next weekend!
I think the key in any intake change hinges upon improving the flow pattern on the head as it leads into the valve. The straighter the shot into the valve the better the flow. Also port matching with the manifold is imperative in order to remove any restriction if the intake port is even slightly larger than the head port. If your intake is metallic then a port and polish job will lead to a straighter flow all the way through to the valve. Depending on the valve style itself some backcutting at the valve stem and valve head junction can remove any restriction there. Larger valves of course will improve the amount of fuel and air that can be ingested by the engine. As we know filling the cylinders more completely transfers to more bang to drive those pistons down. Then you have to look at exhaust valve sizing to expel the gases and aid in filling the cylinders. HTH. JIM. Just saw that pretty polished intake into which I'd put money on they're doing pretty much as I just wrote about. Go for it, I would if someone would lend me two more cylinders JIM
Info on VANOS seals
http://www.beisansystems.com/
The kit that I use for VNAOS seal replacement. It has everything you need including the anti rattle rings and it comes from the UK.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-DOUBL...M56-GASKETS-/221946288092?hash=item33ad0797dc
Note of caution on the shinny metal inlet manifold.
- No DISA flap, so you may have issues with engine check light and error codes on your M52TU and M54 engines
- M54B30 and M54B25 uses different sized throttle body mounting to M50, M52 and M52TU. May need an adapter plate.
- BMW have done considerable air flow engineering on their inlet manifolds. Not sure how much has been done for this manifold.
http://www.beisansystems.com/
The kit that I use for VNAOS seal replacement. It has everything you need including the anti rattle rings and it comes from the UK.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-DOUBL...M56-GASKETS-/221946288092?hash=item33ad0797dc
Note of caution on the shinny metal inlet manifold.
- No DISA flap, so you may have issues with engine check light and error codes on your M52TU and M54 engines
- M54B30 and M54B25 uses different sized throttle body mounting to M50, M52 and M52TU. May need an adapter plate.
- BMW have done considerable air flow engineering on their inlet manifolds. Not sure how much has been done for this manifold.
new vanos seals was a easy job if not a bit time consuming, also did a oil change at the same time so nice new oil with the nice new seals, the only bit I had problems with was the 2 new bolts they give you to screw back in the vanos were made out of cheese but I'd ordered extra as I have heard they can break, also it took a few miles before the power came back but I guess it was the car relearning and the seals bedding in but now I have done that and got a nice s/s exhaust with sports cats she goes like a rocket especially on days like today when the temp is under 5c
Nigel You can help me do mine next time your over this direction
Hi Cuz! certainly can! I will let you know how I get on with it! You made any changes recently to your German mistress?
N
Thanks for the links - cant actually justify the shiny thing....:-( Will see if I can do the vanos at the weekend!