Missing on acceleration

Doing a quick search on line on your code shows that its an evap problem this system deals with fume leakage it pumps air in to create pressure to check for pressure dropping ie aleak in the system. The reed valve switchs to signal the ecm from what i can gather this may lead to a limp mode of sorts its worth a quick search but it would also explain that clearing the code would allow the ecm to work properly hence no fueling issue.
 
RIght filled it up with fuel yesterday. 300m from the petrol station starts running rough. SO rogh it will barely tick over. When I got home (500m) it kept stalling and wouldnt start.

I don't understand why this happens only after fuelling. Getting frustrated now. I cant reset the car either so currently it won't run and it's stuck in the garage. Help.
 
Hi, can you please confirm the following is true [or test and confirm] - just to clarify. The answer might come to light with someone.

01. car will start cold and run well except a cylinder miss at about 1700 rpm.... it can go for long distances just fine...
02. while at operating temperature the car can then be turned off, wait for about 5 mins and car will start and run well as per 01 above...
03. if car is at operating temperature and taken to a petrol station and filled it will start to miss badly and fail.... and
04. when the petrol cap is removed air always rushes in...

Cooper
 
Hi,
Thanks for quick reply. From Oz too!

Just to clarify. I started this thread about the annoying misfire/flatspot at around 1700 rpm. This fuelling then running rough is slightly seperate I think. Maybe tI should put this in a seperate thread so it isn't as confusing by the title.

01 - Yes Normally runs fine for the rest of the tank of fuel can drive it all day long.
02 - Yes - wil start and stop fine. Long run, stop at shop to get milk - come out and drive fine. Wait for partner in car park 0- starts fine when hot.
03 Yes - Usually refuel on way home so engine is hot. Runs terribly after 200m of leaving petrol station. Once tried it after leaving home and fuelling so engine had onl;y warmed for 500m drive and still after fuelling ran terribly. Nver cleared after 20 miles. Took it to indie - they reset car and ran fine. They said they could just see misfire.
04 - Yes Petrol cap when opened sucks air in. I have tried through last tank of fuel opening the cap to see if again it failed.

I have eliminated the fuel itself by using different petrol stations and suppliers.

JUst been out this morning. After engine has cooled all night. Started and ran rough. Revved hard (I know I shouldnt on cold engine) and it cleared. lots of blue smoke at first. Now ticks over fine and sounds smooth with no car shaking. Will almost definately be fine until the next refuelI reckon.

This happened first a couple of years ago after fuelling. Then it was fine for months after all refuels. Gradually becomeing more frequent until now when it happns after every refuel.

Indie had it in - says it showed misfire and then changed the MAF. After this the flatspot was gone and I thought the fuelling problems had also been cured. After a 100 miles with stop and starts the flatspot re appeared and the first refuelling it happened again.

Again thanks for your time.

Woodsta
 
This is what I think, but could be completely wrong...

Friggin gunk/water in the fuel tank gets stirred up when you refill. If it settles it will run fine, occasionally water will get through to cause the misfires. Drain the fuel tank to completely empty, put in a cup of metho and some more fuel, siphon to empty again. Fill with new fuel. Replace the fuel filter then run the car.

Just sayin' that's what I would do! :)

Cooper
 
Morning @Woodsta888

I'm going to throw a few ideas out there for you to look at.

1) EVAP Canister Purge Volume Control Solenoid valve - give it a clean if this becomes stuck open it can give you your symptoms. This is linked to the fuel vapour release from your tank.

2) Try filling up and not putting the filler cap back in (in the cap there should be a breather hole)

These problems would most likely cause misfires.

3) replace the fuel filter (under passenger side under a plastic cover) just in case you have a restriction on fuel pressure.

Lee
 
Last edited:
Thankyou Lee.

Great pointers to investigate. Fuel filter was replaced last year. I'll check the cap and run it loose. Also find that solenoid to clean.

I take it I'm not meant to have a rush of air opening the cap then?

Thanks again
 
No it shouldn't mate. That's going by the various zeds I have driven. None of them have ever done that.

The solenoid is in the engine bay next to the steering fluid reservoir. Usually makes a sucking noise.
 
Woodsta888 said:
Version:0.9 StartHtml: 105 EndHtml: 5828 StartFragment: 334 EndFragment: 5796
E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T -------------------------------------
Date: 04/26/15 10:36:22 ECU: MS420DS0 JobStatus: OKAY Variant: MS420DS0-------------------------------------------------------------
RESULT: 2 errors in error memory !-------------------------------------------------------------

123 avtivate grid-controlled cooling
Error frequency : 1 Logistic counter: 40
Engine speed 704.00 1/min load 54.47 mg/Hub temperature cooling water 74.25 Grad C Battery Voltage 13.87 V appear before (rel.) 2.40 h
Kurzschluss gegen Masse oder Leitungsunterbrechung CARB-Fehler Fehler nach Entprellung gespeichert Fehler momentan vorhanden statischer Fehler
Errorcode: 7B 72 01 28 16 0A A3 88 85 96-------------------------------------------------------------


140 Signal tank-leck-diagnostic-pump reed-switch not clossed
Error frequency : 1 Logistic counter: 40
load 54.47 mg/Hub Engine speed 704.00 1/min temperature cooling water at the start 53.25 Grad C temperature intake air 39.75 Grad C appear before (rel.) 2.20 h
CARB-Fehler Fehler nach Entprellung gespeichert Fehler momentan vorhanden statischer Fehler
Errorcode: 8C 71 01 28 0A 16 87 75 85 98
Click to expand...
Antm72 said:
Doing a quick search on line on your code shows that its an evap problem this system deals with fume leakage it pumps air in to create pressure to check for pressure dropping ie aleak in the system. The reed valve switchs to signal the ecm from what i can gather this may lead to a limp mode of sorts its worth a quick search but it would also explain that clearing the code would allow the ecm to work properly hence no fueling issue.
Click to expand...

Lee said:
Morning @Woodsta888

I'm going to through a few ideas out there for you to look at.

1) EVAP Canister Purge Volume Control Solenoid valve - give it a clean if this becomes stuck open it can give you your symptoms. This is linked to the fuel vapour release from your tank.


2) Try filling up and not putting the filler cap back in (in the cap there should be a breather hole)

These problems would most likely cause misfires.

3) replace the fuel filter (under passenger side under a plastic cover) just in case you have a restriction on fuel pressure.

Lee
Click to expand...
As said in my previous post and as Lee has just posted it sounds like an Evap problem the error code you read indicate so, it senses leaks when you open the tank you release the tank pressure if the switch is not operating correctly it will mis sense a leak and signal the car to possible go in to limp mode the flip side is no leak is present so it runs just badly.
I suspect that the switch it sticking when it releases you get no issues when you release the pressure again at refuel it triggers the fault.
 
Plugged in INPA again. coolant outlet temp reads -48 degrees.

Car was running better but I left running for 5 mins and opened fuel cap. Big rush of air and instantly started running rough again with cap off. Put cap on, wait for pressure to build and it runs better again. Only 2 mins and off with fuel cap again and big rush of air. Pressure with a full tank seems to build quickly. In the ROUGH menu it shows cyls 4,5,6 running rougher than the others. THere is a tank leak test in the ACTIVATE menu and with the cap off it reads 0 and as the pressure builds it goes upto 4 & 3 (max 5).

Gonna remove that EVAP valve shortly and see if I can clean it otherwise it's a new one from the stealers.
 
I like it mate. Sounds like we are on the right track.
 
I take it this valve is meant to have fuel in it? soaked with petrol. The EVAP name made me think of air pressure. Do I change the electrical part as well or just the valve bit? Is there a pressure valve on the fuel tank end I should be looking at too as there seems to be alot of pressure in the tank that isn't being released. Or is this just this EVAP valve.

Again thanks for all the help guys
 
Last weekend I actually fitted a new fuel tank to my M. There is no valve like that on it. Only a carbon tank and earth strap.

I'm not familiar with the workings of this valve so I think it will have to be remove and see if everything looks ok.

IMG_2204.webp
 
t-tony said:
When you remove the filler cap do you hear air rush in/out of the tank? Have you tried running the car with fuel cap not tightened fully or even try one of those temporary type caps, the one without a screw in the centre (not sure if you can still get these as they fail the M.O.T.)

Tony.
Click to expand...
I pointed you in this direction a while ago, if the air is rushing into the tank it points to the breather system on the tank being faulty, whether this is part of the cap or a seperate pipe. Are you positive that air is rushing out of the tank and not inward? The fuel pump cannot pressurise the tank, however it can cause a vacuum in the tank if the fuel it pumps out is not replaced by air from the outside atmosphere.

Tony.
 
Does indeed. And I found that web page you looked at.

Last night I had the valve out. It was wet with fuel which I dont think it should have been. Banged it and tried testing it with 9v battery. Couldnt get a click. Banged it a few times if it was stuck. Rang the stealers none in stock and want £60+ for it take a week from Germany, paying up front and non returnable. Well a week is no good.

So put all back together reset codes and adaption. Started and ran rough. Reset again and wouldnt turn over - battery flat. Not left ignition on that much. Tested battery and it was weak. Automotive store tested it and instead of having 680 cranking amps it had 203. Got a new battery. Car starts fine and levelled itself out immediately. Even took it for a drive. Now no sucking on the filler cap when opening even after driving 20 mins. Fuel guage seems to work too as it was all over the place and now thinking about it may have started teh same time as the refuelling issue. By no means these findings are extensive but I wonder if it was a weak battery where during cranking the engine and the first EVAP reading is taken, the voltage was too low for a correct reading then 8 seconds later after engine has started and 2nd reading taken and the difference between the readings was too great closing the vlave or opening with the wrong readings. Will monitor in case it returns. Even the flat spot is gone. Duff batteries cause these problems?

Until the next refuel and a 2nd hand valve turns up..............see how it goes.
 
So next tank of fuel, refulled. Same. Runs rough as. Misfire on cycls 5&6 Can't clear it using INPA.

The pipe swappy is on about in this thread is perished on mine. I've tried taping it up. Would this cause my problem as it's a vacuum leak?

If I hold the petrol cap agant the tank even for a few seconds the pressure builds and sucks in air. If I put my ear next to a capless tank I can hear some sort of tapping/sucking of air. REally dont want to take this to the INDY for another £400 to not fix it.
 
Have you tried running without the fuel cap fitted?

Tony.
 
Yes, goes to even rougher idle, put foot on accelerator and it dies. Hard to start after that.

If I put the fuel cap back on it smooths out a bit and runs better. But when put foot on accelerator it will rev then miss higher up the rev range and miss as in the engine comes back down in revs and then fires again.

Just put new piece of pipe on that vacuum canister to the electrical box and that made no difference so that answered earlier question too.
 
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