Secondary Air Pump delete question

[rmoconnor41]

When my SAP was "enthusiastically" removed it seemed to coincide with a cold rough idle developing on the M52TU engined Z3 I own.

No air leaks. All the major suspects checked. No codes.

At the back of the engine is an electric valve OEM 117478108

Once the delete is done is this electric valve redundant or is it trying to operate in some fashion?

Thanks

 

[NZ00Z3]

It can be removed and the vacuum line plugged.

 

[Rudyrov]

It can be removed and the vacuum line plugged.

Would the computer throw a code if it was removed?
I ask because in Phoenix, Arizona the authorities still want a "smog check" even though the car is old and if it threw a code because of removal the car wouldn't pass the Smog check.

 

[rmoconnor41]

It can be removed and the vacuum line plugged.

Thanks. On removal of the pump the back of the manifold was capped with two....caps. It's whether that valve is operating electrically and "fooling" the ECU

 

[Rudyrov]

Thanks. On removal of the pump the back of the manifold was capped with two....caps. It's whether that valve is operating electrically and "fooling" the ECU

Thanks for that, so are you saying to leave the control valve connected to the harness and plug the vacuum lines obviously.

 

[ChrisD]

Thanks for that, so are you saying to leave the control valve connected to the harness and plug the vacuum lines obviously.

If you remove the secondary air system it will set a code. There is no ‘fooling’ the diagnostic (except by recalibrating the ECU) - it is looking for reaction in the O2 sensor feedback when the air pump is running. If it sees no reaction - and it won’t when it is removed/blanked off - then it will set a code.
Two things to note:
1. The secondary air system is a non-continuous diagnostic - it only runs when the air pump runs which is not every start. It is likely that the code/MIL will show up when least convenient for you.
2. In the UK and other nonUS markets the annual test takes little account of the OBD status so many just don’t care. Your area takes this stuff a lot more seriously.
Best advice I can give: don’t remove it, fix it.

 

[Rudyrov]

If you remove the secondary air system it will set a code. There is no ‘fooling’ the diagnostic (except by recalibrating the ECU) - it is looking for reaction in the O2 sensor feedback when the air pump is running. If it sees no reaction - and it won’t when it is removed/blanked off - then it will set a code.
Two things to note:
1. The secondary air system is a non-continuous diagnostic - it only runs when the air pump runs which is not every start. It is likely that the code/MIL will show up when least convenient for you.
2. In the UK and other nonUS markets the annual test takes little account of the OBD status so many just don’t care. Your area takes this stuff a lot more seriously.
Best advice I can give: don’t remove it, fix it.

I will do exactly that and to be honest have no interest in the systems removal.
You are right about “my area” paying more attention to those systems than anything else since there is no gov’t agency here that will check a car like the MOT in England.

Cheers!

 

[Lee]

If you remove the secondary air system it will set a code. There is no ‘fooling’ the diagnostic (except by recalibrating the ECU) - it is looking for reaction in the O2 sensor feedback when the air pump is running. If it sees no reaction - and it won’t when it is removed/blanked off - then it will set a code.
Two things to note:
1. The secondary air system is a non-continuous diagnostic - it only runs when the air pump runs which is not every start. It is likely that the code/MIL will show up when least convenient for you.
2. In the UK and other nonUS markets the annual test takes little account of the OBD status so many just don’t care. Your area takes this stuff a lot more seriously.
Best advice I can give: don’t remove it, fix it.

In the UK you will get a code but no EML light for it's disconnection.

I'm assuming the Emissions tests are different between us and you guys, we've removed hundreds of these pumps as they normally fail and none have ever given any EML lights or failed emissions.

 

[ChrisD]

In the UK you will get a code but no EML light for it's disconnection.

I'm assuming the Emissions tests are different between us and you guys, we've removed hundreds of these pumps as they normally fail and none have ever given any EML lights or failed emissions.

EML for this diagnostic is disabled for the UK market for Z3 and early Z4. I don’t know at what MY it is enabled. The MOT test wont pick up any issues with cold start.

 

[Rudyrov]

I think my pump still works, I have not checked lately and have to check engine light to inform me of a code.
I’ll check it out. It’s summer in Arizona now and the engine temperature at start up is darn near normal operating temperature so the computer might not be turning the air pump on.

 

[Lee]

EML for this diagnostic is disabled for the UK market for Z3 and early Z4. I don’t know at what MY it is enabled. The MOT test wont pick up any issues with cold start.

That makes sense then, we do have issues with Pre facelift cars that have cats in the middle of the car struggling to meet emissions and these pumps being the key to sorting that issue plus stricter Euro emissions for the M54.

Did you get smog pumps on all models or just M52TU and M54 ?

 

[Rudyrov]

Mine is M52B28 single vanos.

 

[Lee]

Mine is M52B28 single vanos.

Interesting, didn't get that here. Earliest I think I've seen the pump on is M52TU which is normally very late 98 but mostly 99 year.

 

[Rudyrov]

According to RealOem, my vehicle was built in or on 10/1997 . Type code CJ33.
Would have loved to have the Dual Vanos Model that came I presume just a few months later but it is what it is.
LC10212

 

[rmoconnor41]

Interesting, didn't get that here. Earliest I think I've seen the pump on is M52TU which is normally very late 98 but mostly 99 year.

Can’t really get an answer if the over enthusiastic removal of the SAP has triggered the idle issue. Is the ECU fooled some how with it gone.? Is the still attached electric valve playing any part. If I take her somewhere for a diagnostic what are we searching for in the ECU? Thanks

 

[Zephyr]

Give it some time. It may compensate.

 

[rmoconnor41]

Give it some time. It may compensate.

If this relates to my idle issues it’s been like it for a year.

 

[Lee]

Can’t really get an answer if the over enthusiastic removal of the SAP has triggered the idle issue. Is the ECU fooled some how with it gone.? Is the still attached electric valve playing any part. If I take her somewhere for a diagnostic what are we searching for in the ECU? Thanks

I don’t know what you’re saying. Unless you have a vacuum leak it’s not related to your idle issue.

 

[rmoconnor41]

I don’t know what you’re saying. Unless you have a vacuum leak it’s not related to your idle issue.

Ant and I wondered whether the electric valve still affects the engine in any way despite it no longer having any air lines connecting it to the engine. Does it still have a power source and is the ECU getting data still?

 

[Lee]

Yes it is getting data only to open n close. If anything check the blank hasn't fallen off. Or remove it and blank it at the manifold as discussed above.